A Response to Turretinfan

By NOTR

A commentary surfaced on the Alpha & Omega website written by someone calling himself “Turretinfan.”  It is a short review of the debate between Chris Pinto and James White on December 11, 2013.  The reviewer obviously favors White and desired to defend his side of the argument. 

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2013/12/17/chris-pinto-debate-summary-turretinfan/

Before we answer his commentary, we should mention that the writer in question has chosen his code name from Francis Turretin, a well known seventeenth century, Swiss Reformed theologian.  Turretin is perhaps best known for his teaching that the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist prophesied in Scripture.  His Seventh Disputation was titled, Whether it can be Proven the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist.  In short, he definitely thought it could be proven.   Within this context, the original Turretin wrote:

“… the Pope reigns in the Church in order to destroy and attack the Church itself.”

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What do the Multiple Version Men leave us With?

By Kent Brandenburg

If I were to rank the recent stir-ups that related to the Bible, as to national interest, they would be the following:  (1)  Duck Dynasty Phil Robertson's homosexuality comments, (2)  John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference, (3)  NCFIC Holy Hip-Hop panel discussion, and (4)  Mark Driscoll charged with plagiarism for several of his books.  If I were to rank a number five, it is the hub-bub over the documentary by Chris Pinto that questioned the veracity of Tischendorf's Sinaiticus Greek New Testament manuscript.  This included comments from Dan Wallace, a debate between Pinto and James White, several blog posts attacking Pinto from various sources, and a lot of mileage in discussion forum debate.  Why did this number five create such a furor?

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Collation, Confusion & Erasmus

By Christian J. Pinto

“I have escaped at last from the prisonhouse of Basel, in which I have done six years’ work in eight months.” 

-- Desiderius Erasmus in a letter to Rimaclus, 1516

We have seen several comments from a few who listened to the debate last week, and were understandably confused by one of the points argued by James White.  The polemic he latched on to at one point was the insistence that Constantine Simonides and his uncle would not have had time to “collate” the various manuscripts necessary to have produced the Codex Sinaiticus in 1840.  Hearing that, some people assumed that Dr. White must know what he’s talking about.  But did he?

 On our Adullam Films facebook page, one listener wrote: “... White won the debate at the word ‘collate.’”

Upon questioning this person further, it became clear that he didn’t really understand what the collation process is, and how the variables involved make it impossible to draw a finite conclusion.   When pressed further, he said of Dr. White: “… he’s the expert in those matters, so I trust his authority in that regard.”

We wrote him back and told him:

“... White did, in fact, end the debate with the word ‘collate’ as you said – because at that point, he revealed that he had no legitimate arguments against the story of Simonides.”

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Hiram's Review of the White vs. Pinto Debate

DISAPPOINTMENT WITH THE WHITE VS. PINTO DEBATE

By Hiram Diaz

Although I enjoy listening to debates, I’m not a big fan of them. This may sound contradictory, so let me explain. On the one hand, debates are a great way to become familiar with different points of view, be they non-Christian or Christian. In this respect, I appreciate the knowledge that can be gained from assessing each point and counterpoint making up the debate.

However, on the other hand, personality can often take the place of sound reasoning. The more aggressively one pursues his debate opponent, for instance, the stronger he appears to the audience, as one who is in the right. Why? Because his personality trumps the weakness of his argumentation. Thus, debates can swing in the favor of men who present well, as opposed to presenting their case well.

The debate over whether or not Codex Sinaiticus is a modern forgery, a debate between James White and Chris Pinto was, unfortunately, one that made me dislike debates even more.

Before I listened to the background information that Pinto presented in his documentary and on his podcast/radio show, I was pretty sure James White’s statements about Pinto’s ideas being far-fetched and based on loose threads woven together by conspiracy were right.

But when the debate took place a couple nights ago, I saw that Dr. White was wrong. Pinto presented documented history that challenged the official story regarding Simonides (i.e. the man who claimed to have penned Codex Sinaiticus); Dr. White, however, did not refute Pinto’s challenge.

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My Debate with James White - 12.12.13

THE DEBATE SUMMARY

By Christian J. Pinto

Well, the debate between myself and James White took place last night on the Fighting for the Faith radio program with Chris Rosebrough.  Planned months in advance, and preceded by controversy every step of the way (as everyone knows who has kept up with this issue), it all came down to just 90 minutes where we discussed Sinaiticus, Simonides, Tischendorf … and Jesuits.  For the record, I wish to say that Mr. Rosebrough was, overall, very considerate and handled the debate fairly.

In the immediate aftermath, it is interesting that most of White’s followers have been very reluctant to claim “victory” on his behalf – something they are known for doing.  While supportive of his effort, they seem to have generally cooled their typical insults against us.   Well, most of them anyway.  But we discovered the following Twitter exchange where Jim De Arras tweeted James White:

Jim De Arras@jmdearras2h: “I think you did yourself a disservice arguing with that moron.  He will declare victory and gain followers.”

It is important to acknowledge that Dr. White wrote back:

JamesWhite@DrOakley16892h: “Brethren, brother Pinto is no more of a moron than I am a Jesuit.  Let’s hold ourselves to a proper standard, shall we?”

I am certainly glad to see Dr. White make the effort to compel his supporters towards greater civility, but I can honestly say that after dealing with the Critical Text proponents for the past six months, they can be every bit as fanatical and unreasonable as any extremist on the Bible version issue.  Yet the above tweeter was concerned that our side would “declare victory and gain followers.”  Why?  Most likely because he realized that Dr. White simply had no salient arguments against the central issue, which was whether or not Constantine Simonides was telling the truth when he claimed to have authored Codex Sinaiticus in 1840.  

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